Wherein I make for fun family gatherings.

Posted: 7 September 2010 in civil rights, human rights, obamanation, politics, religion, terrorism, war

This exchange between myself, two of my friends, my sister-in-law, and her husband, happened on my Facebook a few weeks ago. Submitted as-is with only names changed to protect my anonymity.

Còmhradh thinks that if we’re going to demand that Muslims can’t build a shrine in Manhattan (never mind the one that’s already been there for 40 years), then we should demand that there be no Lutheran churches in Jersey City because of the Black Tom incident in World War I that killed 7 Americans, because Wilhelm II was a Luth…eran, and therefore all Lutherans are enemies of America, right?

Friend 1 – On the other hand, America’s been building ‘Ground Zero’ within a couple blocks of mosques all over Iraq and Afghanistan for years now.

BiL – It’s not the fact that they are building it in Manhattan itself. It’s the fact they are building it practically right on ‘Ground Zero’. It’s not about politcs or who is wrong and right with this one. It’s about the 3000 people who died there by Muslim extremist. And being a firemen I wouldn’t want it there to begin with. It’s a slap in the face and not to mention it will cause TONS of issues in the long run that will make it a very bad idea. Our ignorant moron Governor even offered free state land for them to build it on but they won’t do it (the only good thing hes done.) So… yeah… Its a BAD idea and its a slap in the face… Take it down the block away from ‘Ground Zero’

Còmhradh – @BiL – so, you’d feel that strongly if there was a proposal to build a church right a few blocks from Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta or near the site of the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City?

Còmhradh – @Friend 1 – but that’s their fault for living in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Friend 1 – ‎”Yeah, I have a delivery here for Iraq. Can Iraq sign for it? It’s a large box of freedom. …Oh, I’m sorry, I meant explosions. The freedom’s on back order.”

SiL – they just HAVE to build near the world trade center? no sense of remorse for these people that died and those that died to save our those in need. no wonder most of america is against….per CNN

SiL – babbling facts does nothing to justify why they are doing it….thats just senseless facts

Còmhradh – So, the 62 Muslim victims of 9/11 don’t count? Were they also responsible for the attacks simply because they were Muslim? Does that mean every Christian is responsible for the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996?

BiL – I honestly don’t care what most of America is against. Most of America has been against some crazy shit in the past, like women’s suffrage, alcohol, interracial marriage, Catholics…

SiL – neither do i….but thank god most of america has their head on right about it

Friend 1 – There just isn’t enough manufactured controversy out there. It’s a real shame America’s so focused on educating its young people, caring for its veterans and elderly, keeping the work force employed and providing medical care for its citizens. We really need more mosque arguments and video game outrage, because wouldn’t it be terrifying if this privileged, rich, powerful and obnoxiously vocal country actually did something beneficial and useful for its citizens for a change?

Còmhradh – I don’t think anyone’s actually addressing my point here – If we’re going to rage about a “mosque” near Ground Zero, why should we not get up in arms about churches near sites of Christian-based terrorism?

Friend 2http://daryllang.com/blog/4421 stuff that’s also “right on top of ground zero”

BiL – You want to know why? Because this is the United States of America. You are American before anything else and the freedom you have is what the Muslim Extremist are trying to take away. Ground Zero is a American spot where we lost over 3000 people in an attack that was senseless. Unless of course you agree with that. And putting the Mosque right on top of that heartbreaking spot is ARROGANT and full of IGNORANCE.

BiL – @Friend 2 that stuff was there this is ‘aftermath’ of them building this… ITS A INSULT and as a New Yorker and a Fireman its PATHETIC and I don’t give a shit who I offend with this but if you are for it…. you… are Pathetic

Friend 2 i’m sorry. Iv’e actually read and believe in the constitution and the bill of rights.

Còmhradh@BiL – Yes, and in the United States of America, we have the freedom to place any manner of religious shrine on private property we own, regardless of what other people think. Unless of course you don’t agree that we should have freedom of religion.

BiL – What is arrogant and full of ignorance is this perpetuation that this is a mosque (it is not), lumping all Muslims in this country together with the extremists who attacked us (they are not), and thinking that it’s OK to strip certain groups of people of fundamental rights simply because you don’t like them (it’s not).

Còmhradh@BiL – calm down, sparky. We’re having a rational discussion here.

Friend 2 – way to make my point there sparky.

BiL – First. Fuck Muslims. I don’t give a shit about them after what happened. Second. Believe it or not, this is not about you, this is about the people who died and their families. Its a slap in the face and the Muslim community is trying to make a point……..

Còmhradh – @BiL – if you can’t behave, you don’t get to chime in.

BiL – I am not calm about this @Còmhradh. Its full of liberal idiocy and its a insult to me. So I won’t stop being pissed about this until the subject is closed and the Mosque is elsewhere.

Friend 2 – hey @BiL, it’s not about you. its about freedom and what it means to defend freedom. _THIS_ is what it means to defend freedom. not blowing up some third world country.

BiL – How about not calling me Sparky @Friend 2 since you don’t know me, and I don’t know you. And @Còmhradh…. Don’t post something ridiculous if you don’t want comments and thoughts.”

Còmhradh – I want comments and thoughts, not racist bigotry. We were having a nice discussion before you jumped in and started throwing elbows.

Friend 2 – oh, and freedom and non government interference with private property and religion is ridiculous now is it? Wow. just wow. Do I get to use the “America love it or leave it” line yet?

BiL – The war is needed and I stand by that. Bush did the right thing. All the liberals can’t eat a bull of crap. And the Mosque don’t belong where it is going… Period.

Còmhradh – @BiL – what exactly has either war accomplished?
We’ve been in Afghanistan for almost 9 years and have succeeded only in killing civilians and further destabilizing a nuclear-armed Pakistan.
We’ve been in Iraq for 6 1/2 years and only succeeded in making Iran the dominant power in the region.
If that’s your definition of “necessary,” then it is absolutely necessary that I’m given a giant robot to stomp around downtown Sheboygan.

BiL – And your saying the Muslims who killed 3000 people in NYC arnt racist? Yes they are. Prove to me they arnt. This is America and a Mosque don’t belong on hollowed ground. Move it away from the spot and make people happy

Friend 2 – Liberals and Liberty have the same root. sorry don’t believe in living in an authoritarian theocracy. going into afganistan was the rightmove, the facts have been quite clear about who’s been eating the bull for Iraq.

Còmhradh – @BiL – The Muslims who killed 3015 people on 9/11 are dead. They also killed (besides themselves) 62 Muslims. Are you spitting in the faces of their relatives by calling them racists for getting themselves killed?

BiL – My definintition of Necessary is I support what Bush did. I support being in war. I support our troops. And I support defending this homeland.

Friend 2 – defending the homeland by making us piles more enemies? how about defending the homeland by not dismantling it from the inside out?

Còmhradh – @BiL – that doesn’t really answer the question. You support the war, which has only served to create dead troops, but you support the troops. These two things are completely contradictory.
I support the troops by opposing continually useless wars that only get them killed and create more enemies for us, which will only ensure that even more troops get killed.

Friend 2 – Re muslems: so do lots of christians and jews.

BiL – The Muslim extremist are racist and most Muslims have this idea that they are the higher power and they are living the right life. All thought that is there opinion look what it did on 9/11. All i am saying is move the Mosque away from Ground Zero. And @Còmhradh… 62 Muslims killed is nothing compared to over 2,500 that weren’t Muslims.

Còmhradh – ‎@BiL – so… Muslims lives aren’t as important as non-Muslim lives?
“The American extremists are racist and most Americans have this idea that they are the higher power and are living the right life.

BiL – LOL @Friend 2…. dismantling it? Wow…. You are obviously blind to what is really going on.

Friend 2 – I don’t know @BiL, revoking personal and religious freedoms for he sake of mob rule seems pretty contradictory to what this country’s about.

CòmhradhBiL – @Friend 2 isn’t the one advocating a repeal of the First Amendment here.

BiL – I support the troops because its the right thing to do. They are over there fighting for our freedom. If you don’t support them how would that make them feel? Protesting is not a good thing for them to see.

CòmhradhBiL – America hasn’t fought a war for American freedoms since 1865. The troops are over there fighting for our economic interests. They’re not even fighting for *someone else’s* freedoms.

Supporting troops is in no way the same as supporting the insane mission they’ve been tasked with.

BiL – LOL OK… enough…. seriously…. You guys have no argument. You believe in OBAMA when he is the worst President in US HISTORY! And will be a 1 term guy. But you follow him EVEN THOUGH HE IS TRYING TO MAKE THIS COUNTRY A SOCIALIST SOCIETY! YOU ARE RIDICULOUS! —-MOVE THE MOSQUE—- ITS A INSULT

Friend 2 – wow, way to bring up random unrelated topics. we have an argument obviously or you wouldn’t be backing out.

Friend 1 – Re: the war: “There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.” – Sun-Tzu
Re: the mosque: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” In other words, demanding that the free exercise of a religion be impeded by any sort of decree is unconstitutional. PERIOD.

BiL – Backing out? Not going anywhere!

Còmhradh@BiL – a) I don’t “believe” in Obama, b) You need to look at James Buchanan and Warren G. Harding before you start judging Obama, c) you have no idea what socialism is, and everything I’ve ever heard you say about socialism just sounds like a good idea that Obama has consistently *not* done. This is America. You don’t have the right to not be insulted. I find the fact that there are people who would surrender our rights at the drop of a hat to be an insult, but I’ve still got to live here.

Friend 2 – well then bring some substance other than hurt feelings and baseless opinions.

Friend 2 – clearly you don’t because there’s nothing even remotely socialist going on in the obama administration.

Friend 1 – @BiL – You’re not going anywhere? Or I’m not going anywhere? The lack of subject in that sentence fragment has me confused. Could you please try to make your thoughts more coherent and well-formatted? The last time I heard rhetoric this vocal and broken it was coming from a podium in Nuremberg in the early 1940s.

BiL – LOL @Còmhradh… you are so blind…. And I do know what Socialism is

CòmhradhBiL – Please, describe socialism, and how letting tax cuts expire while expanding programs implemented by Republican presidents is in any way akin to it.

BiL – Hurt feelings? LOL @Friend 2 you are pathetic and obviously don’t know how to read. Everything I am saying has substance and NOT everyone agrees with you believe it or not. And it’s funny how over 60% of America is for what I am saying.

Friend 2– wind and crying isn’t substance and that all you can come back with is “pathetic” tells me more about your argument than it says about mine. sparky.

BiL – Ok… be a bitch… or are lesbians not Bitches? Not sure how this works. And @Friend 1…. Big words don’t make you “right”… And @Còmhradh… Socialism………. look at Obama’s presidency and thats my definitions/ . If you don’t like my views/Thoughts/views… DONT RESPOND….

Còmhradh – @BiL – we really can’t parse out what you’re saying other than “I hate Muslims and Obama,” and I need to see the polling that suggests that 60% of America agrees with that.
Interestingly, 62% of Americans think we should get out of Afghanistan, so I guess you’re not with the majority there.

Còmhradh – @BiL – We’ll take that as an admission that you’ve got nothing left to say, have admitted defeat, and want to no longer participate in this or any further discussions. Thanks for stopping by.

And then my brother-in-law and I unfriended each other, my sister-in-law unfriended me (because I was being “hypocritical,” which I still don’t understand), my brother-in-law unfriended Mrs. Còmhradh, and Mrs. Còmhradh’s sister didn’t speak to her for a week.

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